Male Student Based Scripts and Advice ("Red Flags")

On this page:

• Background Introduction: Student Focus Groups' Input
• Twenty Questions
• Important Note from Dr. Weitz
• Student Based Scripts and Its Contextual Situation
• "Red Flags"

Introduction: Male Student Focus Groups' Input/Contribution

In the Fall of 2010, my student workers, namely Sarah and Emma, and I were able to identify male students at Truman willing to participate in focus groups on date rape prevention.  The men were affiliated with various social fraternities on campus.  The two evening focus groups each had nine participants. 

I facilitated the discussions that were recorded and followed the same organization of the previous female focus groups.  Specifically, I initially showed the male participants the “Twenty Questions” that a girl or woman could utilize on a date to determine if she was with an overly aggressive male.  The men concurred with the women’s focus groups assessment from fall 2008 that the initial inquiries were typical and appropriate for a first date, but the ones that asked about past dating, values, and sexual matters were not acceptable for use until the couple had been on several dates. One male focus group member stated, “It’s kind of forward to say how you feel about sex [on a first date].” 

Even at that juncture, the male participants thought one would have to cautiously approach the issues; hopefully, the female date could ascertain the answers through casual conversation.  As one interviewee stated, “They are unspoken questions you find out about as the relationship progresses.”

“Twenty Questions”

A male focus group member claimed that it’s difficult to obtain a truthful answer from a male date.  He stated, “[It’s] hard to do questions sometimes because on a date he’s going to try and impress the girl he’s with…and you know that’s kind of hard to get a good judge of character on somebody with one date so I mean while some of these questions would be able to get an idea of somebody you got to take into account the fact that guys are competitive and they exaggerate and you know, do whatever to try and impress a girl who they want to be with.”

Male focus group members’ suggestions/reactions concerning “Twenty Questions”:

·       “Misinterpretation [of the values] could happen; [the guy] could become

        overly aggressive because what she had just said.”

·   “Ask about current relationships like, ‘Are you seeing anyone else.’”

·   “Coming together and saying, ‘What is this?’ I feel like nobody does that   

        anymore.”

·   “There are a lot of signs…that can be misconstrued with alcohol.”

·   “Everybody goes into this part of a relationship not exactly knowing what’s

       going to happen.”

·   “If there was a good way to define terms you know beforehand-a playbook or something, what’s going to go down-I feel like we wouldn’t have these problems.  Nobody wants to talk about it until it’s happening so certainly a guys not going to start doing something then, eh, you know it’s…I guess a lot of the problems that I see with this topic are in its expectations.”

·   “It’s a sensitive topic, it’s easier to talk to your bros about, ya know, what went on but it’s not easy talking to a girl about what’s going on, what’s going to go on.”

·   “A sense of rejection is almost what leads people from talking about it.  To the fact that, you know, you don’t openly say, ‘So you know, the date went fine, do you want to sleep with me?’ and then she says ‘no’ I mean you just kind of feel belittled and hurt for the fact that obviously something’s wrong with you, someone wouldn’t want to sleep with you, so I think the uncertainty factor rules in there.  The fact of not knowing is better than actually knowing if it’s actually going to happen or not.”

·   “I mean I don’t know about the rest of the guys in the room but I would never talk about past relationships nor would I care about past relationships on the first date let alone the second or eighth date. Not to mention that it’s kind of forward to say how do you feel about sex.”

·   “I mean it comes up, morals and like the less sensitive topic one, like where do you see yourself in ten years, ya know, that’s fine but the whole past relationships I don’t really have a problem with them as I would just never do that….I would avoid that topic as a guy.”

·   “The expectation questions, in an ideal world, if you asked a girl when she thought it was appropriate to have sex and she was like, ‘Well, I don’t know you at all I don’t think it’d be appropriate until, ya know, say I met your family,’ that’d be a good question but I feel like if a guy asked that to a girl, a girl would automatically assume that that’s all a guy is interested in and I think if a girl asked a guy that question the guy thinks he’s getting lucky.”

·   “I think this is too objective to use as a template…you have your normal questions of things you just have to analyze at an individual state.”

·   “I don’t think you’re going to get an honest expectation until you just go for it which I know is what you’re trying to eliminate with this communication but then until he’s like, ‘Hey, you wanna go back to my place?’ you’re not really going to know honestly what’s going down.”

·   “You could maybe put morals in front of past relationships.”

·   “In a perfect world these are all great questions but once you get down to it…if I’m asked what qualities do you look for in a girl with the girl I’m in a date with I’m going to start describing the girl.”

·   “[He’s going to] Answer it in the best way he thinks the girl would approve of.”

“Date Rape Prevention Scripts”

With regard to the date rape prevention scripts, once again, the male student focus groups echoed the female focus groups from two years ago.  They thought the best and only option for use on a date is the first script. 

One fellow indicated that second script might be utilized if the first one was ineffective.  As he stated, “I think it’d be completely reasonable for a girl to walk up to me and say the first one…the second one I feel like is if she told me the first one and I made a move and then she said the second one…if you’re aggressive past that second one then you deserve to have the cops called on you…”

Upon reflection, a male focus group member explained the following,

“I like a combination of one and two because one is more reasonable then the second one seems more aggressive I just asked you out and you’re already yelling at me for something that might happen but I do like the part in the second where it’s ‘I hope you weren’t planning anything’ like that but not necessarily that aggressive if you were to put in the second one like ‘I don’t want to have sex with you tonight’ instead of ‘I don’t want to have sex.’ In the first one it’s a little more direct like nothing’s going to happen tonight, it doesn’t matter how well I know you tonight because the second one, ‘I want to wait until I know you,’ well, after a first date how well do you know someone something still could happen.”

As did the women, the male focus group members vehemently ruled out the third script as excessively “heavy handed” (i.e., clumsy, oppressive, harsh, etc.) in nature.  As one interviewee remarked, “This girl could possibly be crazy… Unless she was talking to a guy that had specifically been arrested for rape, it’s almost insulting.”  Another male participant stated, “… if you’re happy to say the third one on a regular basis you should just carry pepper spray.” 

Male focus group members’ suggestions/reactions concerning “Date Rape Prevention Scripts”:

·   “It’s very straightforward and it seems to define what she’s looking for.  There’s not a specific time they left the specifics out, but it’s saying that when the relationship is at the point where it’s ready for the next step, then that’s where they’re going. I guess it’s not specifically defined…it’s up to the discretion of the two people involved because two and three seem like it’s up to the girl when she’s ready and solely up to the girl even if the guy feels emotionally that they’re ready to be intimate with each other…it should be a mutual decision….”

·   “A girl really shouldn’t have a time limit, it is way too objective.  Maybe a specific concrete area in the relationship….but to set an actual date or time or a ‘no sex until after this many dates’ it’s really weird.  If I were to find that out it’d creep me out a little bit.” 

·   “Number two and three are pushing the guy away saying, ‘It’s my decision when it’s going to happen and if you don’t agree with that then we need to break up,’ but number one is, ‘No, this is my understanding of the situation, this is how I feel like I don’t want to have sex right now until I feel emotionally inclined to you,’ and it keeps the conversation open for the guy to express his opinion as well where the woman will be receptive.”

·   “If a girl would say anything like number three the guy would be like, ‘You think I’m going to rape you I don’t want to go out with you at all,’ so I think if I was going to come down one way or the other, number one would be a good way to start.”

When asked about how they would edit some of the scripts, one participant suggested,

“‘I am looking forward to our date and I really enjoy hanging out with you.  But I want to tell you ahead of time, so there is no misunderstanding: I will not be having sex with you tonight. I want to wait until we know each other and the relationship progresses.’

I think the most important part of that script is the reason why she doesn’t want to because that tells you that she is seriously meaning this she actually doesn’t want to have sex on that date by putting a reason like I never have sex with a guy until we date for a long time that give you a reason not to pursue anymore.”

Men varied in their opinions on the question of when a female date should express the script.

·   “I think you could say this before a date but girls tend to say this but then they act a different way and they start giving off the signs that guys are always looking for them…and the guys hormones are like, ‘Alright time to mate’… [Girls] can’t really stop and prevent everything just by one sentence on a date; they need to have that attitude throughout.”

·   “With the first one it’s almost better if you just said it so it’s not the game plan, straightforward, …be consistent be straightforward [don’t use] the mixed signals, that’s huge.”

As did the female focus groups in 2008 many from the male groups felt the script should be utilized in the latter part of the date.

·   “Maybe after [the main event (i.e. movie, dinner, dance, etc.)] on the drive home.” 

·   “After the date, if the date went well.”

·   “Preempt with, ‘I enjoyed this date, I think we should go out again but nothing’s going to happen.’”

·   “On the drive home, ‘I really enjoyed the date this isn’t going to happen but I hope we can go out again.’”

·   “I think it’s important, probably before they show up at their destination because if she invites you inside or you walk in the door and you go inside and she starts this afterward it almost seems like she’s led you on to a certain point and then she’s just going to say no and then that makes it probably less likely that you’re going to do another date but I would have no offense whatsoever if this was said in the car before we got too far.”

·   As did the female focus groups, the men highlighted that besides timing, vocal tone is important when expressing the recommended script.  One male participant warned, “If she does it in a nonchalant kind of way just talking about the date…she doesn’t want to go that far yet.” 

In contrast another interviewee suggested what a female date should avoid. 

·   “If a girl jumps into my car after a date and just goes straight for ‘we’re not having sex tonight’ even if I wasn’t planning on making that move I would just think she’s just not interested in me at all, sounds cold.”

·   “Make sure she’s in control of the situation, be in a public area, know where you’re going to be at, if you’re fearful at all don’t get in the situation.”

·   “Being at college, a lot of our first interactions with girls are at parties when alcohol is involved.  I feel like a lot of women shouldn’t go home with a guy that they met not more than three hours ago under the influence of alcohol.  Once you get back to his dorm room or apartment, it’s just you and that person.  Even if your intentions are not having sex with that person, you’ve opened the door….”

“Red Flags”

Finally, I spoke to the focus group members about the “Red Flags” that were constructed from the female focus groups’ verbal remarks in 2008.  The male participants in Fall 2010 highlighted the significance of numerous items from the list, discounted others, and added a few new ones. 

Male focus group members’ suggestions/reactions concerning “Red Flags”:

·   “They [female dates] can also ask how they [i.e., male dates] are when they are drinking alcohol, like if they’re aggressive.”

·   “After the female date has told the male that she does not want to have sex she must remain consistent...not flirting…that doesn’t mean completely go cold because if it goes completely cold then you have a feeling she doesn’t like you…you can be flirtatious but not overly physical.”

·   “If a male date encourages the female to drink more or refill her drinks, drunk or sober, the girl or woman should question his intentions. Well I mean if he keeps refilling your drink it could be because it’s empty and you drink everything in the past…if the girl says, ‘No, I don’t want another drink,’ and then he starts saying things like, ‘Come on have another one,’ that’s different then if he walks up and hands you a beer because you’re out.”

·   “If he will only meet up with a girl at a party where everyone’s around and then there’s a lot of alcohol you’re obviously not looking for a long term thing.”

·   “If he becomes violent during mundane arguments then yeah but if we’re talking religion or politics…that shows his character more than if he’s going to rape you…There are things that I will get intense about, not necessarily angry but intense.”

·   “I think also maybe if he’s physical…they keep taking a girl out of her group of friends and talking to her off to the side and then she goes back and he keeps bringing her over somewhere away from the group that’s definitely a red flag…if he keeps pulling her off, especially pulling her and up against the wall.”

·   “If you’re [male date] overly flirtatious with other girls.”

·   “If they’re an attention holder-I have a friend who gets gratification not to have sex, he likes the attention of the desire so he wants lots of girls to like him.  That’s his motive, going around parties, that’s how he works and the girls should look for that.  Look for how he handles attention, how he handles being under the spotlight.”

·   “Anyone that treats a perfect stranger like crap, even someone as close as their mother, if they’re not going to respect them then what indication is there that they’re going respect you.”

·   “He’s sober and he keeps trying to get the girl to beer bong and stuff like that.  She’s already falling over…what do you plan to do to her?”

·   “That mindset of the guy where he’s got the idea in his head of he wants this he’s going to go and get it… seems to be physical contact if he’s getting close to you and you’re dancing throughout the party…he’s just going to view that as a positive indicator, kind of a green light.”

·   “Pay attention to what he says…sometimes things he says won’t match up…if you can catch him at something then you know he’s full of shit.”

·   “Violent or aggressive behaviors-guy goes and picks up the girl and he’s driving overly aggressive…little things that people shouldn’t get mad about (traffic, fighting people).”

·   “Look for double standards-he thinks it’s alright but it’s not alright for you…if they feel like they can go out talking to whomever, do what they want but you’re not allowed to do that.”

·   “Parties or social kinds of situations…the guy won’t leave the girl they’re with, the dating situation where they’re overbearing too much could be a red flag.”

·   “A control situation where you see a guy pull a girl into another room and he says, ‘Let’s talk,’ or if she’s trying to walk away and he puts his arm against the wall so she can’t go or any type of a control situation where they’re giving themselves the upper hand taking unnecessary control of the situation…where they won’t let something go and they have to turn it out to a point where they’re victorious… those kind of control issues are extreme red flags.”

·   “I think a girl should never enter a relationship where she thinks she might change the guy if she feels like there’s something she needs to change or something she needs to do that’s a red flag in itself…”

·   “You see it all the time in those dysfunctional relationships where the girl thinks she can fix this broken guy who’s emotionally unstable, there’s always those romance movies that girls like to watch...where the guys have something, his best friend died in the war like in Wedding Crashers where he uses that story how he lost a lot of good men out there and she just pretends to melt, it’s a good example I guess.”

·   “I think that’s a good indicator if he brings a girl to a place where there’s competition because he doesn’t really care if the girl stays with him or not.”

·   “I think girls should be listening to their friend’s advice on the guys too.  Because if every one of your [guy] friends hates the girl you’re with, you’re obviously missing something.  I think it works the same way for girls.”